Let's Keep Talking!
& let's stay curious.
So, I had this amazing, powerful - & very memorable - conversation with one of my daughters one time a few years ago.
We're a family of divorce - & one thing about families of divorce is, the fallout never quits!
It's emotionally complex - even in cases where the break-up was prize-winningly civil - as I believe ours was, really.
There are just ... things.
You know?
Fallout.
So. I was feeling hurt about something, & my daughter was trying to explain to me why she had chosen to ... bleah bleah bleah, details not important.
As so often happens when we feel hurt, I moved from the hurt I couldn't express, to feeling angry.
But.
The two of us stayed the course.
We kept talking.
She got to explain herself.
I listened.
We made our way past the hurt & the inclination to anger - there were even some tears, as I recall.
Neither of us gave up & abandoned the conversation.
I've never forgotten it!
It was ... very special.
My daughter & I both got to be heard.
We both got past our own hurt, anger, defensiveness.
We were both committed to really hearing one another.
“War is what happens when language fails.” ― Margaret Atwood, in The Robber Bride
Sometimes - hard as it may be to do - we have to be willing to just shut up & listen!
Parenthetically, this is especially true when relating with palliative care clients. If ever there was a time to check our egos at the door & let the other person guide the conversation - not over-insert our self - that is surely one of them.
Conversation can be quite a magical thing!
It's ... unpredictable.
Fluid. Organic.
You never quite know where it's going to go.
You can't control it.
And, as long as nobody is trying to force it - or highjacks it - it can really be almost magical.
We learn important things about the other person/people in the conversation.
About the world, even!
I've sure had some great moments sitting around a campfire - just yakking.
Yakking.
Listening.
Ahhhhh.
“It’s one of the secrets of the world. We all have the key to one another’s locks. But until we start to talk, we don’t know it.” – Michael Silverblatt
****
These days?
Lordy. There's so much to disagree about!
So much vitriol in social media.
Ai-yi-yi.
A lot of bad faith.
People not really listening to one another.
Delighting in taking cheap shots.
Hearing their own voices.
I have to scroll by a lot of stuff, that's for sure.
I might have an opinion - something I'd like to add to the conversation.
But often don't have the stomach for the inevitable - often kneejerk - oppositional chit-chat.
Three things the Covid era has certainly taught me (among a great many others!!) is
I can no longer believe in "experts" - sooo many fell very noisily off their pedestals & can never be seen the same way - or really trusted - again.
I can learn a lot from a person - any person! - even when s/he & I disagree on many issues.
We can't always convince others of our views - or even, sometimes - of basic facts.
And … we don't have to agree with one another's views on
religion
politics
climate change
vaccines
etc. etc. etc.
... yet we can still have a respectful dialogue.
If we choose to.
Social media is likely not the best place for that...
"Social media makes more sense when you view it as a place people go to perform rather than a place to communicate." - Morgan Housel (& shared on F-book by Dr. Toby Rogers, a man who is greatly wise & whose Substack I read faithfully!)
In the Covid era I've come to really enjoy podcasts.
Because they're conversations.
And I've long been mad keen about the potential to learn from conversation - even when I might disagree with some things/views that are being expressed/discussed.
For example, I watched a neat conversation recently (this one
between Heather Heying & her husband Bret Weinstein - a couple who are both PhD scientists (evolutionary biologists) - & so enjoyed watching them talking - discussing things - not always agreeing with one another's take on things - yet never descending into anger or defensiveness or sarcasm. A lovely example of a nuanced, super-civilized conversation.
*****
What Do I Think?
I think women have long understood the power of conversation.
“The cultivation of a stance of invulnerability robs men of a wisdom known to most women in this culture – that people actually connect better when they expose their weakness. Linguist Deborah Tannen, analyzing women’s ‘rapport talk’ versus men’s ‘report talk,’ found that a vital component of conversation between women was what she called ‘trouble talk’ – inviting the listener in by opening up one’s own points of vulnerability. Finally, to the degree to which a man learns to ‘be strong’ and to devalue weakness, his compassion toward frailty not just in himself but also in those around him may be limited or condescending. In this and many other ways, the loss of expressivity and the loss of vulnerability inevitably lead to diminished connection with others.” – from I Don’t Want to Talk About It – Overcoming The Secret Legacy of Male Depression, by Terrence Real - a doozy of a book!
Talk is healing.
It opens us up.
Cracks us open!
& connects us.
“Only connect. This is how we make meaning. This is how we learn to think as Nature thinks.” – Gregory Bateson, anthropologist
Now.
I happen to live in Toronto - Canada's largest city, & one quickly becoming a shit hole - but that's an essay someone else is welcome to write. Whoa. Just before hitting ‘Post’ on this, this posting on that very topic popped into my feed!
Toronto - Then & Now
In the olden days I used to think of it as an unfriendly city (I lived here in a previous incarnation & decade & phase of my life) ... & it might've actually been less friendly then, I'm not entirely sure.
But now
Now?
As I go about my life here ... being a frequent walker in my neighbourhood
I wind up having occasional conversations with strangers - neighbours - store owners - fellow shoppers.
Just being friendly with people really makes a difference! I lucked into a great neighbourhood also, it must be said.
And...
Sometimes we have to have ... difficult conversations with people we care a great deal about.
In the Covid era.
Or any time.
Sometimes it's wiser to keep quiet.
& just ... be kind.
We sure can't let fly with every thought that comes into our minds, heaven knows!
I can think of a few things to never say. “I told you so.” “Shut up.” “Grow up.” “I know how you feel.” “Are you a complete moron, or what??”
But mostly I'll keep advocating that - whatever we do - however deep & nasty the swamp(s) we (the human race) seem to have fallen to the bottom of in these so-very-fraught times...
Let's. Keep. Talking!
It will still & always be - to me - the Whole Darn Karmic Enchilada.
Janet
p.s. I plum forgot to say this: Shouting does not qualify as conversation! Shouting shuts down conversation. (Duh.) I came up with this line one time: Nothing good happens once the shouting starts.
p.p.s. you can find more quotations about conversation here.
& some about voices here.
p.p.p.s. Oh - & why stay curious? Because we can learn so much by being curious - & staying open. Curiosity & conversation are great companions!
p.s. #4: I have a lot of interesting/inspiring things stuck up on my fridge. One of them is
"If you can't say something, you can't see it either." from Stephen Jenkinson in Die Wise – A Manifesto for Sanity and Soul
There is a special power to saying things out loud.
Another:
"What is mentionable is manageable." (I have no source for this one.)
In other words, we can talk about ANYthing, really. If we're willing to talk about it in good faith. Calmly.
And:
"Before healing can take place, the poison must be exposed." (no source for this one either)
Was a big fan of Dr. Brene Brown. She got me through a very rough patch. Vulnerability is not something us guys learn from modern action movies, learned some of it from her. Will have to go and catch up with her. Will go look at the links you posted. Thanks